Subject: Re: Regarding FEG 3.03b -- List found


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Posted by John Merlino (Profile) on December 14, 2002 at 12:45:06:

In Reply to: Re: KBBPKR EGDB -- Regarding FEG posted by John Merlino on December 14, 2002 at 12:07:11:

First, here are a few notes from e-mails that Johan sent me:

--------------
Here is a good example of the bug (now known as the "KNNK bug"):
  Kf2 Nf1 Ne8, Kh1 Pg5
  1. Nf6 g4
  2. Ne4 g3+
  3. Nexg3#
CM reports a draw until after Ne4.
Without KNNKP it will report nothing, which is actually better. :-)
Unfortunately, KNNKP is part of the full installation....

KPPKP and KPKPP are not affected. I expected this because these all-pawn files
were considered a thorough checksum for the entire 5-men process, yet they did
not reveal the bug some years ago.

KBKNP has now much longer wins. For example:
Kd1 Bb8, Ka1 Nd2 Pa2, wtm M9
I guess someone has dug up positions like this before (weak side has deep win),
but this one caught my eye.

It's a safe bet that just about any 6-man files that users have created will
have this bug also. Though it's also safe to assume most of the damage is
restricted to short mates in contrived positions. With the obvious exception of
KNNKP, KNNKPX, KXNNKP.
--------------

Secondly, here is an explanation of the bug as Marc reported it:

--------------
> The starting position is, Black to move:
>
> W: Kg4, Rf5, Nf8, Nh4
> B:  Kh6, Rf1
>
> Chessmaster using the database now says that 1...Rxf5 leads to a
> draw, even though when 1...Rxf5 is played, it immediately sees
> that 2.Nxf5 is mate.  This seems to indicate that the position
> (White to move):
>
> W: Kg4, Nf8, Nh4
> B: Kh6, Rf5
>
> is not labeled as a win for white in the database, even though
> 1.Nxf5 is mate.
>
> Additional indication that this error is in the database and not
> in the GUI is that I came across this from the 6-man ending
> KRNNKR (Black to move):
>
> W: Kf3, Rf5, Nf8, Nh4
> B: Kh6, Rb1
>
> Chessmaster (with the DB) labels this position as a draw, giving
> the line 1...Rf1 2.Kg4, which is actually the first position
> listed above, which is won for White.
--------------

Finally, here is Johan's list of 4 and 5-man files that have incorrect data:
--------------
Columns old # = solutions generated by FEG 3.03a.
Columns fix # = solutions generated by FEG 3.03b.

KNNK    902   old          0   fix         15   diff      15

KBKB    902   old          0   fix         14   diff      14

KBKN    902   old          0   fix          1   diff       1

KBKP    902   old          0   fix         28   diff      28

KNKR    902   old          0   fix          1   diff       1

KNKB    902   old          0   fix          1   diff       1

KNKN    902   old          0   fix          1   diff       1

KNNKQ   001   old       6420   fix       6640   diff     220
KNNKQ   901   old       2458   fix       2542   diff      84
KNNKQ   902   old          0   fix        465   diff     465

KNNKR   001   old      10488   fix      10700   diff     212
KNNKR   901   old       4098   fix       4180   diff      82

KNNKB   001   old      12062   fix      12282   diff     220
KNNKB   002   old        482   fix        530   diff      48
KNNKB   003   old      10708   fix      12000   diff    1292
KNNKB   004   old        434   fix        490   diff      56
KNNKB   005   old       3450   fix       4942   diff    1492
KNNKB   006   old        112   fix        164   diff      52
KNNKB   007   old        544   fix        774   diff     230
KNNKB   901   old       8499   fix       9394   diff     895
KNNKB   902   old       1373   fix       1451   diff      78

KNNKN   001   old      13768   fix      13980   diff     212
KNNKN   002   old       1808   fix       2032   diff     224
KNNKN   003   old      35996   fix      39812   diff    3816
KNNKN   004   old       2374   fix       2810   diff     436
KNNKN   005   old      26574   fix      33206   diff    6632
KNNKN   006   old       1222   fix       1452   diff     230
KNNKN   007   old      11150   fix      13434   diff    2284
KNNKN   008   old       1318   fix       1600   diff     282
KNNKN   009   old      10176   fix      12720   diff    2544
KNNKN   901   old      30145   fix      35070   diff    4925
KNNKN   902   old       4479   fix       5051   diff     572

KNNKP   001   old      32972   fix      33588   diff     616
KNNKP   002   old       8826   fix       8872   diff      46
KNNKP   003   old      85372   fix      85820   diff     448
KNNKP   004   old      24520   fix      24618   diff      98
KNNKP   005   old     156532   fix     157214   diff     682
KNNKP   006   old      34340   fix      34552   diff     212
KNNKP   007   old     244280   fix     245886   diff    1606
KNNKP   008   old      56328   fix      56714   diff     386
KNNKP   009   old     318944   fix     321718   diff    2774
KNNKP   010   old      69070   fix      70016   diff     946
KNNKP   011   old     355826   fix     361150   diff    5324
KNNKP   012   old      67908   fix      68404   diff     496
KNNKP   013   old     318048   fix     319380   diff    1332
KNNKP   014   old      45784   fix      46234   diff     450
KNNKP   015   old     237692   fix     240244   diff    2552
KNNKP   016   old      50434   fix      50184   diff    -250
KNNKP   017   old     240118   fix     238488   diff   -1630
KNNKP   018   old      61892   fix      62314   diff     422
KNNKP   019   old     253888   fix     255730   diff    1842
KNNKP   020   old      52206   fix      52730   diff     524
KNNKP   021   old     239172   fix     241752   diff    2580
KNNKP   022   old      51626   fix      53062   diff    1436
KNNKP   023   old     229044   fix     235396   diff    6352
KNNKP   024   old      46172   fix      48442   diff    2270
KNNKP   025   old     212566   fix     216808   diff    4242
KNNKP   026   old      42714   fix      44196   diff    1482
KNNKP   027   old     198166   fix     200312   diff    2146
KNNKP   028   old      42260   fix      41118   diff   -1142
KNNKP   029   old     189934   fix     185146   diff   -4788
KNNKP   030   old      40466   fix      37988   diff   -2478
KNNKP   031   old     182288   fix     175328   diff   -6960
KNNKP   032   old      34518   fix      33794   diff    -724
KNNKP   033   old     164484   fix     161884   diff   -2600
KNNKP   034   old      32096   fix      32090   diff      -6
KNNKP   035   old     149524   fix     149746   diff     222
KNNKP   036   old      33900   fix      33812   diff     -88
KNNKP   037   old     161476   fix     162360   diff     884
KNNKP   038   old      37310   fix      37574   diff     264
KNNKP   039   old     174052   fix     175310   diff    1258
KNNKP   040   old      42392   fix      42822   diff     430
KNNKP   041   old     194898   fix     196734   diff    1836
KNNKP   042   old      47570   fix      48516   diff     946
KNNKP   043   old     210382   fix     214734   diff    4352
KNNKP   044   old      49106   fix      49612   diff     506
KNNKP   045   old     221580   fix     223218   diff    1638
KNNKP   046   old      54834   fix      55512   diff     678
KNNKP   047   old     246240   fix     250526   diff    4286
KNNKP   048   old      65624   fix      69786   diff    4162
KNNKP   049   old     298924   fix     316566   diff   17642
KNNKP   050   old      86918   fix      87930   diff    1012
KNNKP   051   old     387670   fix     394726   diff    7056
KNNKP   052   old     104338   fix     107298   diff    2960
KNNKP   053   old     455680   fix     466022   diff   10342
KNNKP   054   old     112288   fix     114852   diff    2564
KNNKP   055   old     494540   fix     506398   diff   11858
KNNKP   056   old     124384   fix     125356   diff     972
KNNKP   057   old     563122   fix     568478   diff    5356
KNNKP   058   old     146236   fix     147928   diff    1692
KNNKP   059   old     663396   fix     674096   diff   10700
KNNKP   060   old     175844   fix     178078   diff    2234
KNNKP   061   old     791402   fix     802924   diff   11522
KNNKP   062   old     206824   fix     212412   diff    5588
KNNKP   063   old     929208   fix     956174   diff   26966
KNNKP   064   old     253654   fix     262068   diff    8414
KNNKP   065   old   1,126036   fix   1,164982   diff   38946
KNNKP   066   old     317564   fix     330372   diff   12808
KNNKP   067   old   1,362142   fix   1,420454   diff   58312
KNNKP   068   old     395586   fix     411004   diff   15418
KNNKP   069   old   1,621164   fix   1,691392   diff   70228
KNNKP   070   old     466328   fix     484834   diff   18506
KNNKP   071   old   1,836206   fix   1,918306   diff   82100
KNNKP   072   old     546650   fix     546848   diff     198
KNNKP   073   old   2,086414   fix   2,070884   diff  -15530
KNNKP   074   old     593266   fix     579056   diff  -14210
KNNKP   075   old   2,137308   fix   2,045060   diff  -92248
KNNKP   076   old     619660   fix     598762   diff  -20898
KNNKP   077   old   2,049404   fix   1,949484   diff  -99920
KNNKP   078   old     643244   fix     632594   diff  -10650
KNNKP   079   old   2,006664   fix   1,961038   diff  -45626
KNNKP   080   old     684140   fix     673648   diff  -10492
KNNKP   081   old   1,945268   fix   1,902912   diff  -42356
KNNKP   082   old     678950   fix     668734   diff  -10216
KNNKP   083   old   1,799046   fix   1,765156   diff  -33890
KNNKP   084   old     683528   fix     676080   diff   -7448
KNNKP   085   old   1,692204   fix   1,664720   diff  -27484
KNNKP   086   old     699112   fix     695368   diff   -3744
KNNKP   087   old   1,599408   fix   1,588218   diff  -11190
KNNKP   088   old     702452   fix     700624   diff   -1828
KNNKP   089   old   1,553914   fix   1,549582   diff   -4332
KNNKP   090   old     689304   fix     688844   diff    -460
KNNKP   091   old   1,565654   fix   1,564572   diff   -1082
KNNKP   092   old     714492   fix     714296   diff    -196
KNNKP   093   old   1,659974   fix   1,659482   diff    -492
KNNKP   094   old     793928   fix     793740   diff    -188
KNNKP   095   old   1,778290   fix   1,777838   diff    -452
KNNKP   097   old   1,671676   fix   1,671624   diff     -52
KNNKP   098   old     736600   fix     736572   diff     -28
KNNKP   099   old   1,385098   fix   1,384958   diff    -140
KNNKP   100   old     651988   fix     651994   diff       6
KNNKP   101   old   1,147484   fix   1,147474   diff     -10
KNNKP   102   old     525338   fix     525332   diff      -6
KNNKP   103   old     912146   fix     912124   diff     -22
KNNKP   104   old     401918   fix     401912   diff      -6
KNNKP   105   old     717864   fix     717844   diff     -20
KNNKP   106   old     333350   fix     333352   diff       2
KNNKP   107   old     644806   fix     644804   diff      -2
KNNKP   108   old     323446   fix     323444   diff      -2
KNNKP   109   old     681054   fix     681030   diff     -24
KNNKP   111   old     800222   fix     800220   diff      -2
KNNKP   112   old     472312   fix     472320   diff       8
KNNKP   113   old     931744   fix     931742   diff      -2
KNNKP   114   old     557578   fix     557590   diff      12
KNNKP   115   old     990680   fix     990704   diff      24
KNNKP   116   old     629176   fix     629182   diff       6
KNNKP   117   old   1,031568   fix   1,031562   diff      -6
KNNKP   118   old     602338   fix     602324   diff     -14
KNNKP   119   old     995406   fix     995512   diff     106
KNNKP   120   old     553104   fix     553172   diff      68
KNNKP   121   old   1,012342   fix   1,012392   diff      50
KNNKP   122   old     557626   fix     557714   diff      88
KNNKP   123   old   1,046218   fix   1,046416   diff     198
KNNKP   124   old     601310   fix     601452   diff     142
KNNKP   125   old   1,088182   fix   1,088222   diff      40
KNNKP   126   old     597850   fix     597896   diff      46
KNNKP   127   old   1,073306   fix   1,073248   diff     -58
KNNKP   128   old     608466   fix     608464   diff      -2
KNNKP   129   old   1,044862   fix   1,044860   diff      -2
KNNKP   130   old     635864   fix     635982   diff     118
KNNKP   131   old   1,012696   fix   1,012610   diff     -86
KNNKP   132   old     641114   fix     641078   diff     -36
KNNKP   133   old     994098   fix     994028   diff     -70
KNNKP   134   old     628316   fix     628274   diff     -42
KNNKP   135   old     875758   fix     875736   diff     -22
KNNKP   136   old     556206   fix     556248   diff      42
KNNKP   137   old     689376   fix     689342   diff     -34
KNNKP   138   old     427322   fix     427266   diff     -56
KNNKP   139   old     526092   fix     526130   diff      38
KNNKP   140   old     357158   fix     357274   diff     116
KNNKP   141   old     478008   fix     477950   diff     -58
KNNKP   142   old     368020   fix     367942   diff     -78
KNNKP   143   old     529498   fix     529456   diff     -42
KNNKP   144   old     454654   fix     454642   diff     -12
KNNKP   145   old     605984   fix     605922   diff     -62
KNNKP   146   old     528786   fix     528766   diff     -20
KNNKP   147   old     618966   fix     618924   diff     -42
KNNKP   148   old     551718   fix     551728   diff      10
KNNKP   149   old     614280   fix     614282   diff       2
KNNKP   150   old     518916   fix     518920   diff       4
KNNKP   151   old     606518   fix     606528   diff      10
KNNKP   152   old     478370   fix     478358   diff     -12
KNNKP   153   old     623574   fix     623522   diff     -52
KNNKP   154   old     482992   fix     482952   diff     -40
KNNKP   155   old     726978   fix     726896   diff     -82
KNNKP   156   old     592544   fix     592452   diff     -92
KNNKP   157   old     851248   fix     851190   diff     -58
KNNKP   158   old     694818   fix     694750   diff     -68
KNNKP   159   old     929342   fix     929286   diff     -56
KNNKP   160   old     729126   fix     729080   diff     -46
KNNKP   161   old     974910   fix     974900   diff     -10
KNNKP   162   old     731916   fix     731910   diff      -6
KNNKP   163   old   1,059044   fix   1,059040   diff      -4
KNNKP   164   old     760944   fix     760938   diff      -6
KNNKP   901   old  40,543290   fix  40,546725   diff    3435
KNNKP   902   old  20,257188   fix  20,258787   diff    1599

KNPKQ   001   old      43356   fix      43358   diff       2
KNPKQ   005   old      81966   fix      81965   diff      -1
KNPKQ   901   old  49,019558   fix  49,019559   diff       1

KNPKN   003   old     215248   fix     215265   diff      17
KNPKN   005   old     365610   fix     365605   diff      -5
KNPKN   006   old      42733   fix      42735   diff       2
KNPKN   007   old     691231   fix     691235   diff       4
KNPKN   008   old      87131   fix      87129   diff      -2
KNPKN   009   old   1,278361   fix   1,278353   diff      -8
KNPKN   010   old     161531   fix     161532   diff       1
KNPKN   011   old   2,302561   fix   2,302563   diff       2
KNPKN   012   old     345866   fix     345867   diff       1
KNPKN   013   old   4,368283   fix   4,368277   diff      -6
KNPKN   014   old     751496   fix     751494   diff      -2
KNPKN   015   old   7,790780   fix   7,790778   diff      -2
KNPKN   017   old  11,584275   fix  11,584274   diff      -1
KNPKN   022   old   7,676817   fix   7,676819   diff       2
KNPKN   023   old  14,117755   fix  14,117764   diff       9
KNPKN   024   old   7,985756   fix   7,985765   diff       9
KNPKN   025   old  12,063218   fix  12,063238   diff      20
KNPKN   026   old   5,630466   fix   5,630482   diff      16
KNPKN   027   old   8,944531   fix   8,944535   diff       4
KNPKN   028   old   3,607935   fix   3,607933   diff      -2
KNPKN   029   old   6,150633   fix   6,150620   diff     -13
KNPKN   030   old   2,684491   fix   2,684482   diff      -9
KNPKN   031   old   4,658357   fix   4,658349   diff      -8
KNPKN   032   old   2,545447   fix   2,545436   diff     -11
KNPKN   033   old   4,353175   fix   4,353166   diff      -9
KNPKN   036   old   2,692536   fix   2,692538   diff       2
KNPKN   038   old   2,638598   fix   2,638594   diff      -4
KNPKN   039   old   3,307484   fix   3,307481   diff      -3
KNPKN   040   old   2,402009   fix   2,402007   diff      -2
KNPKN   041   old   2,880211   fix   2,880213   diff       2
KNPKN   042   old   2,040420   fix   2,040426   diff       6
KNPKN   043   old   2,427774   fix   2,427778   diff       4
KNPKN   044   old   1,664564   fix   1,664558   diff      -6
KNPKN   045   old   1,978497   fix   1,978490   diff      -7
KNPKN   046   old   1,355711   fix   1,355710   diff      -1

KNPKP   007   old   1,423538   fix   1,423539   diff       1
KNPKP   008   old     414914   fix     414916   diff       2
KNPKP   009   old   2,770038   fix   2,770041   diff       3
KNPKP   011   old   4,722236   fix   4,722235   diff      -1
KNPKP   012   old   1,971314   fix   1,971312   diff      -2
KNPKP   013   old   7,807121   fix   7,807118   diff      -3

KBKQB   001   old       1174   fix       1362   diff     188
KBKQB   002   old          0   fix        187   diff     187
KBKQB   003   old          -   fix       1290   diff    1290
KBKQB   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKQB   901   old        624   fix       1363   diff     739
KBKQB   902   old          0   fix        354   diff     354

KBKQN   001   old        112   fix        128   diff      16
KBKQN   901   old         56   fix         64   diff       8
KBKQN   902   old          0   fix         28   diff      28

KBKQP   001   old       1248   fix       1436   diff     188
KBKQP   002   old          0   fix        374   diff     374
KBKQP   003   old          -   fix       1290   diff    1290
KBKQP   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKQP   901   old       1248   fix       2726   diff    1478
KBKQP   902   old          0   fix        706   diff     706

KBKRB   001   old       1898   fix       2086   diff     188
KBKRB   002   old          0   fix        251   diff     251
KBKRB   003   old          -   fix       1672   diff    1672
KBKRB   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKRB   901   old        986   fix       1916   diff     930
KBKRB   902   old          0   fix        504   diff     504

KBKRN   001   old        162   fix        178   diff      16
KBKRN   901   old         81   fix         89   diff       8
KBKRN   902   old          0   fix         41   diff      41

KBKRP   001   old       1972   fix       2160   diff     188
KBKRP   002   old          0   fix        502   diff     502
KBKRP   003   old          -   fix       1672   diff    1672
KBKRP   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKRP   901   old       1972   fix       3832   diff    1860
KBKRP   902   old          0   fix       1006   diff    1006

KBKBB   001   old       9098   fix       9474   diff     376
KBKBB   002   old          0   fix        282   diff     282
KBKBB   003   old          -   fix       1856   diff    1856
KBKBB   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKBB   901   old       2372   fix       2944   diff     572
KBKBB   902   old          0   fix        979   diff     979

KBKBN   001   old       4036   fix       4240   diff     204
KBKBN   002   old          0   fix        133   diff     133
KBKBN   003   old          -   fix        890   diff     890
KBKBN   004   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKBN   901   old       2018   fix       2565   diff     547
KBKBN   902   old          0   fix        714   diff     714

KBKBP   001   old      14238   fix      14802   diff     564
KBKBP   002   old        744   fix       1163   diff     419
KBKBP   003   old       1607   fix       2940   diff    1333
KBKBP   901   old      17369   fix      19266   diff    1897
KBKBP   902   old       5113   fix       5532   diff     419

KBKNN   001   old        404   fix        436   diff      32
KBKNN   901   old        101   fix        109   diff       8
KBKNN   902   old          0   fix         56   diff      56

KBKNP   001   old       4206   fix       4426   diff     220
KBKNP   002   old        624   fix        985   diff     361
KBKNP   003   old       1855   fix       2955   diff    1100
KBKNP   004   old        134   fix        537   diff     403
KBKNP   005   old        310   fix       1608   diff    1298
KBKNP   006   old          8   fix        185   diff     177
KBKNP   007   old          6   fix        662   diff     656
KBKNP   008   old          0   fix        177   diff     177
KBKNP   009   old          -   fix        621   diff     621
KBKNP   010   old          -   fix        139   diff     139
KBKNP   011   old          -   fix        260   diff     260
KBKNP   012   old          -   fix         81   diff      81
KBKNP   013   old          -   fix        239   diff     239
KBKNP   014   old          -   fix         31   diff      31
KBKNP   015   old          -   fix         77   diff      77
KBKNP   016   old          -   fix          5   diff       5
KBKNP   017   old          -   fix         18   diff      18
KBKNP   018   old          -   fix          0   diff       0
KBKNP   901   old       6377   fix      10866   diff    4489
KBKNP   902   old       2014   fix       3388   diff    1374

KBKPP   001   old       8398   fix       8774   diff     376
KBKPP   002   old       2818   fix       3062   diff     244
KBKPP   003   old       7904   fix       8358   diff     454
KBKPP   004   old        474   fix        542   diff      68
KBKPP   005   old       1274   fix       1436   diff     162
KBKPP   006   old        128   fix         28   diff    -100
KBKPP   007   old        298   fix         68   diff    -230
KBKPP   008   old         16   fix          0   diff     -16
KBKPP   009   old         40   fix          -   diff     -40
KBKPP   010   old          0   fix          -   diff       0
KBKPP   901   old       8957   fix       9318   diff     361
KBKPP   902   old       2858   fix       2956   diff      98

KNKQR   001   old        247   fix        255   diff       8
KNKQR   901   old        145   fix        149   diff       4
KNKQR   902   old          0   fix         36   diff      36

KNKQB   001   old        296   fix        306   diff      10
KNKQB   901   old        148   fix        153   diff       5
KNKQB   902   old          0   fix         30   diff      30

KNKQN   001   old        289   fix        299   diff      10
KNKQN   901   old        161   fix        166   diff       5
KNKQN   902   old          0   fix         31   diff      31

KNKRR   001   old        634   fix        650   diff      16
KNKRR   901   old        180   fix        184   diff       4
KNKRR   902   old          0   fix         45   diff      45

KNKRB   001   old        860   fix        878   diff      18
KNKRB   901   old        467   fix        476   diff       9
KNKRB   902   old          0   fix        105   diff     105

KNKRN   001   old        857   fix        875   diff      18
KNKRN   901   old        459   fix        468   diff       9
KNKRN   902   old          0   fix        101   diff     101

KNKRP   001   old       1694   fix       1710   diff      16
KNKRP   901   old       1998   fix       2014   diff      16

KNKBB   001   old        868   fix        888   diff      20
KNKBB   901   old        217   fix        222   diff       5
KNKBB   902   old          0   fix         48   diff      48

KNKBN   001   old       1013   fix       1033   diff      20
KNKBN   901   old        523   fix        533   diff      10
KNKBN   902   old          0   fix        104   diff     104

KNKBP   001   old       1871   fix       1891   diff      20
KNKBP   002   old        123   fix        124   diff       1
KNKBP   003   old       1049   fix       1056   diff       7
KNKBP   901   old       4362   fix       4389   diff      27
KNKBP   902   old        684   fix        685   diff       1

KNKNN   001   old       1086   fix       1106   diff      20
KNKNN   901   old        288   fix        293   diff       5
KNKNN   902   old          0   fix         61   diff      61

KNKNP   001   old       1993   fix       2013   diff      20
KNKNP   901   old       7039   fix       7059   diff      20

KPKQR   001   old      17799   fix      17800   diff       1
KPKQR   901   old     892286   fix     892287   diff       1

KPKRR   001   old      31334   fix      31336   diff       2
KPKRR   039   old      39942   fix      39940   diff      -2

KPKRB   001   old      39066   fix      39067   diff       1
KPKRB   901   old   7,293080   fix   7,293081   diff       1

Done comparing 230 pairs of .LOF files
--------------

Every file in the above list (7 4-man files and 35 5-man files) was affected by
this bug, and needs to be rebuilt if you want 100% accurate data. Obviously,
KNNKP is by far the most affected file set, with KNNKN being a very distant
second.

jm




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